VERSION 2.0
Revised 2022
Revised 2022
PROVE ALL THINGS, HOLD FAST THAT WHICH IS GOOD
1 Thessalonians 5:21
1 Thessalonians 5:21
SECTION II(a) NOTES
Verses Which Speak of Physical Torment: Related to Section II
Revelation 14:9-11, Isaiah 34:8-10, Luke 17:28-30, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:9-11 |
Detailed expositions of these verses are also available in the following works:
A "Hellish" Misapplication of Scripture The Furnace of Fire and the Wrath of God Does this passage offer irrefutable proof of the doctrine of eternal torment? Many believe that it does, and tell us that this text cannot be made to teach otherwise without twisting or violating the scriptures. Quite to the contrary, I believe the opposite is true – It is those who would use this verse to promote the doctrine of the eternal conscious torment of the wicked who have erred greatly. Obviously, this passage contains the terms ‘fire’, ‘brimstone’, ‘smoke’, ‘torment’, and ‘forever and ever’ – All words that have become closely associated with the teaching of eternal torment in the minds of those who hold this view. However, it is precisely the close association of these terms with the notion of eternal torment that blinds many to what is actually missing from the passage. In order for the passage to promote the doctrine of eternal torment, it must prove three things:
I propose that it can be conclusively demonstrated that when properly examined, the passage exhibits none of these. In fact, it will be shown that these verses are highly misunderstood, and that a much sounder and obvious interpretation is in view. Due to the importance of the passage and the misunderstanding surrounding it we will comment at length, taking up these three points one at a time. |
1) Can the punishment described in the passage be made to apply to mankind in general, or does it have reference only to a specific class of people? Note:
“If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink etc."
This passage is clearly not a generalized warning for all of mankind - It is issued at a specific time (after the sounding of the seventh trumpet) and is directed towards a specific class of people; namely, those who are worshiping (present tense) the beast and taking its mark. Therefore, the burden of proof lies with the teachers of eternal torment to show that this passage has equal application to all of unsaved humanity and not to the one class of people only. As this question hangs on the proper interpretation of the passage and the correct identification of the symbolism contained within it, we feel that the next two points will demonstrate that it cannot be used as a generalized description of ‘hell’, but does in fact warn only a punishment upon those threatened - Those who are found worshipping the Beast, or are found to have taken his mark.
2) Does the punishment and torment described in this passage extend beyond this earth, or this life?
As the proper interpretation hangs upon this question it is extremely important that our answer be based upon a careful scriptural analysis, and not upon assumption. Most Christians assume that the torment by ‘fire and brimstone’ spoken of here is a reference to the ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ found in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10. But this is a serious error.
The language of this verse is not taken from Revelation 19 and 20, but from the Book of Isaiah:
And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, And the dust thereof into brimstone, And the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; The smoke thereof shall go up for ever: From generation to generation it shall lie waste; None shall pass through it for ever and ever. (Isaiah 34:8–10)
Notice also Luke 17:28-30 shown to the left. Notice that in the day the Lord is revealed (not in an eternal hell), it rains FIRE AND BRIMSTONE from heaven upon the earth just as it did in the days of Lot. Both of these passages are prophecies of earthly judgments which are to be poured out at specific time. They are not generalized descriptions of ‘hell’.
What most Christians have done here is they have removed the fulfillment of Revelation 14:9-11 from its immediate context and applied these words to the ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ which only first appears in Revelation 19. But notice in that passage that it is only the ‘beast’ and ‘false prophet’ who are cast into that lake – the rest of the wicked (obviously those who were worshipping the beast) are simply killed (Rev 19:20-21). Therefore, Christians must actually believe that the fulfillment of Revelation 14:9-11 does not occur until the wicked are cast into the lake of fire following the ‘Great White Throne Judgment’ (Rev 20:15). But that this is an error should be obvious if not for the fact that the teaching of eternal torment has blinded us into equating all references to ‘fire’ or ‘torment’ with a place called ‘hell’ – a word which appears nowhere within this passage.
The exact fulfillment of this passage is not to be found in Revelation 20, but in the immediate context of the passage – the ‘Harvest’ of mankind which begins in Revelation 14:14 and extends through the coming of Christ in chapter 19. The harvest which is described in Revelation 14 in which the wicked are cast into 'the great winepress of the wrath of God' is simply a symbolic representation of what follows in Chapters 15-19; Namely, the seven 'bowl' judgments of God's wrath. When the first of these bowl judgments is poured out in Revelation 16:2 we read:
"And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."
Here we see the beginning of the exact fulfillment of those warnings given in Revelation 14:9-11. The warning is for a specific class of people, and the torment falls on that same class of people - Those worshipping the Beast, its image, or have taken its mark.
Notice that every detail of the warning issued in Revelation 14:9-11 is fulfilled by the ‘bowl judgments’ described in Revelation 16-19:
“If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink etc."
This passage is clearly not a generalized warning for all of mankind - It is issued at a specific time (after the sounding of the seventh trumpet) and is directed towards a specific class of people; namely, those who are worshiping (present tense) the beast and taking its mark. Therefore, the burden of proof lies with the teachers of eternal torment to show that this passage has equal application to all of unsaved humanity and not to the one class of people only. As this question hangs on the proper interpretation of the passage and the correct identification of the symbolism contained within it, we feel that the next two points will demonstrate that it cannot be used as a generalized description of ‘hell’, but does in fact warn only a punishment upon those threatened - Those who are found worshipping the Beast, or are found to have taken his mark.
2) Does the punishment and torment described in this passage extend beyond this earth, or this life?
As the proper interpretation hangs upon this question it is extremely important that our answer be based upon a careful scriptural analysis, and not upon assumption. Most Christians assume that the torment by ‘fire and brimstone’ spoken of here is a reference to the ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ found in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10. But this is a serious error.
The language of this verse is not taken from Revelation 19 and 20, but from the Book of Isaiah:
And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, And the dust thereof into brimstone, And the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; The smoke thereof shall go up for ever: From generation to generation it shall lie waste; None shall pass through it for ever and ever. (Isaiah 34:8–10)
Notice also Luke 17:28-30 shown to the left. Notice that in the day the Lord is revealed (not in an eternal hell), it rains FIRE AND BRIMSTONE from heaven upon the earth just as it did in the days of Lot. Both of these passages are prophecies of earthly judgments which are to be poured out at specific time. They are not generalized descriptions of ‘hell’.
What most Christians have done here is they have removed the fulfillment of Revelation 14:9-11 from its immediate context and applied these words to the ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ which only first appears in Revelation 19. But notice in that passage that it is only the ‘beast’ and ‘false prophet’ who are cast into that lake – the rest of the wicked (obviously those who were worshipping the beast) are simply killed (Rev 19:20-21). Therefore, Christians must actually believe that the fulfillment of Revelation 14:9-11 does not occur until the wicked are cast into the lake of fire following the ‘Great White Throne Judgment’ (Rev 20:15). But that this is an error should be obvious if not for the fact that the teaching of eternal torment has blinded us into equating all references to ‘fire’ or ‘torment’ with a place called ‘hell’ – a word which appears nowhere within this passage.
The exact fulfillment of this passage is not to be found in Revelation 20, but in the immediate context of the passage – the ‘Harvest’ of mankind which begins in Revelation 14:14 and extends through the coming of Christ in chapter 19. The harvest which is described in Revelation 14 in which the wicked are cast into 'the great winepress of the wrath of God' is simply a symbolic representation of what follows in Chapters 15-19; Namely, the seven 'bowl' judgments of God's wrath. When the first of these bowl judgments is poured out in Revelation 16:2 we read:
"And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."
Here we see the beginning of the exact fulfillment of those warnings given in Revelation 14:9-11. The warning is for a specific class of people, and the torment falls on that same class of people - Those worshipping the Beast, its image, or have taken its mark.
Notice that every detail of the warning issued in Revelation 14:9-11 is fulfilled by the ‘bowl judgments’ described in Revelation 16-19:
| Comparing Revelation Chapter 14 with Revelation Chpaters 15-19 | |
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WARNING REVELATION 14:9-11 |
FULFILLMENT REVELATION CHAPTERS 15-19 |
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Wrath of God (Rev14:10) |
Bowls of the Wrath of God (Rev 16:1) |
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Poured Out (Rev 14:10) |
Bowls of Wrath Poured Out Upon the Earth (Rev 16) |
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Cup of the wine of his wrath (Rev 14:10) |
Cup of the wine of his wrath given to Babylon the Great (Rev 16:9) |
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In the Presence of the Angels (Rev 14:10) |
Harvesting Angel (Rev 14:7) Angels Pour Out (Rev 16:2,3,4,8,10,12,17) |
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Those Worshipping the Beast Threatened (Rev 14:9) |
Those Worshipping the Beast Tormented (Rev 16:2) |
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Tormented with Fire (Rev 14:10) |
Tormented / Scorched with Great Heat (Rev 16:8) |
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Tormented with Fire (Rev 14:10) |
Burning, Torment (Rev 18:9-10,15) |
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Torment, No Rest Day or Night (Rev 14:11) |
Grievous Sore, Waters Turned to Blood, Scorched with Fire, Darkness, They Gnawed Their Tongues for the Pain (Rev 16:2,3,4,8,10,12,17) |
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Smoke Arose Forever and Ever (Rev 14:11) |
Smoke Arose Forever and Ever (Rev 19:3) |
The thought that so obvious a fulfillment could be missed by the majority of Christians boggles the mind but illustrates the blindness caused by the doctrine of eternal torment. Most Christians think that Revelation 14:9-11 is an obvious reference to hell. But what seems obvious to them is nothing more than a cruel illusion. Revelation 14:9-11 has nothing to do with hell, and its truly obvious fulfillment, as shown in this comparison, is right there in black and white, in the same language, and given within the immediate context!
For sure, the passage warns of severe judgments which are to be poured out upon this earth - But the warnings and corresponding judgments are for a specific time and apply to a specific class of people.
3) Does Revelation 14:9-11 teach that the threatened judgment and torment continues throughout eternity? Two phrases in the text have led many to that conclusion.
First, “The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever”. On this point we note two things. First, ‘forever and ever’ does not mean ‘eternity’ as we have shown in the previous sections above and also in Section VIII. Phrases such as this have reference to time, and literally mean 'long ages', not eternity. Second, and more importantly, this phrase is taken from Isaiah 34:10 (the destruction of Edom) and is repeated again in Revelation 19:3 (the destruction of Babylon the Great). Both of these have reference to earthly judgments – the smoke is rising ‘forever’ from lands and cities on this earth. Will those who use this phrase ‘the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever’ demand a strict literalism which reduces the text to an absurdity?
Consider Revelation 18:21:
"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."
Then compare this with Revelation 19:1-3
"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore (Babylon), which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever."
It simply does not follow that the figure of perpetually rising smoke signifies that something must be literally burning forever. This language is obviously symbolic of the magnitude of these judgments and the ruin and desolation which will ever stand as an example of God’s judgment against sin and disobedience.
Second, “They have no rest day or night”. This is obviously true so long as these judgments last. But just how long do they last? Notice Revelation 15:1:
“Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.”
If these seven last plagues complete the wrath of God against those worshiping the beast, then surely God's wrath cannot extend eternally beyond them. Clearly those on whom these judgments are poured have no rest day or night while these judgments last, but nothing in the text suggests that this is an eternal condition.
We see then that Revelation 14:9-11, when properly examined and understand completely fails in regard to the doctrine of eternal torment. The specific fulfillment of this prophetic passage appears in its immediate context. Its language is taken from passages which speak only of earthly judgments. Given this, we have to ask: Who is it that has actually twisted and misrepresented this passage?
Some have also tried to equate this passage with 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 shown above:
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.”
Neither of these passages refer to ‘hell’ nor are they necessarily parallel one to the other. Depending on how the clause ‘everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord’ is read, they may also appear to contradictory. Is the preposition ‘from’ to be read as ‘Everlasting destruction away from the presence of the Lord’, or ‘Everlasting destruction that comes from the presence of the Lord?’.
If it is the former – ‘Everlasting destruction away from the presence of the Lord’ then clearly the passage is not a reference to same judgments threatened in Rev 14:9-11 since those judgments take place ‘IN the presence of the holy angels, and IN the presence of the Lamb’. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 would then be referring to judgments which follow the return of Jesus, not to those which preceded it such as those threatened in Revelation 14:9-11.
If it is the latter – ‘Everlasting destruction that comes from the presence of the Lord?’, then 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 may be seen as a cross reference to Revelation 14:9-11 and would be a description of those same judgments threatened and detailed above. In neither case can either of these passages be used to bolster the doctrine of eternal torment.
Please see: Notes from Marvin Vincent’s Word Studies in the New Testament where he comments extensively on 2 Thessalonians 1:9 and the phrase ‘Everlasting Destruction”.
The following videos are also available for this passage:
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Revelation 19:20-21, Revelation 20:10
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Revelation 19:20-21) |
The first mention of the 'lake of fire' occurs in Revelation 19:20. That the 'lake of fire' is obviously symbolic is discussed below and in the next section. We have to ask what is meant by the casting of the beast, false prophet, and the Devil into this lake. The first two occupants of the 'lake of fire' are the Beast and False prophet, but when we enquire as to their identity we generally get a different answer for each person we ask. The modern evangelical will answer along these lines: The Beast is the 'Antichrist', a powerful word leader who will arise in the end times and via one world government rule the entire earth. The False Prophet is a religious leader who with the Antichrist leads the world into one united false religion.
While this is a rather novel (and I might add relatively new) teaching concerning the Beast and False Prophet, there are problems with this interpretation. If this be the case, then one would assume that these are humans. That would seem to follow without question. But the trouble is this: If these are indeed human, then they are the only two wicked humans who will escape the Great White Throne Judgment. These would go into the Lake of Fire BEFORE the judgment, in contrast to the rest of wicked mankind who go into the lake of fire FOLLOWING judgment. |
Not even Satan is thrown into the 'Lake of Fire' prior to this judgment. The Bible is clear that every child of Adam must appear for judgment to give account; how do these escape? I suppose we could say that their wickedness is such that it precludes judgment and they are sentenced to the lake of fire directly, but that would be a matter of pure guesswork.
I feel the obvious answer to this problem is in the interpretation placed upon the 'Beast' and 'False Prophet' by the protestant faiths for 350 years: that these are not men at all but mere symbols for satanic systems. The 'beast' represents those worldly political systems, and the 'False Prophet' those religious systems which deceived mankind.
Someone might immediately object that it makes no sense to cast 'systems' into a lake of fire. How would one do that anyway? This ignores two basic facts: 1)The language is obviously symbolic. It is only those who need to take it literally in order to hang onto a much cherished belief who seem to not be able to see this, and 2) Revelation 20:14 states that 'death and hell' are also cast into the lake of fire. Therefore the question is unavoidable no matter what conclusions you draw concerning the Beast and False Prophet. How do you cast something abstract like death into a literal lake of fire? The answer lies in the obviously symbolic nature of the passage. Please see below and the next section for more detail.
We are left only with the Devil of whom it is said along with the Beast and False prophet: 'shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever'. It matters little what conclusions we reach on the meaning of this phrase, because as the next two verses indicate there is nothing said of mankind being tormented forever and ever. This is clearly a designation which is applied only to the Devil, The Beast, and The False Prophet.
It does not follow, as some suggest, that this verse 'proves' that whatever is cast into the lake of fire is thus tormented forever and ever. How would you or could you torment death? How could you torment the grave (Hades, see section IV)? In addition, we find elsewhere the following in clear and non-symbolic language:
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14
Clearly the Devil is to be destroyed. So, if the Devil is to be destroyed, and the Beast and False Prophet, death, and hades are systems or abstract concepts, then how can they be 'tormented day and night forever and ever'? We have to look for what this might mean within the symbolical language in which it is written.
I feel the obvious answer to this problem is in the interpretation placed upon the 'Beast' and 'False Prophet' by the protestant faiths for 350 years: that these are not men at all but mere symbols for satanic systems. The 'beast' represents those worldly political systems, and the 'False Prophet' those religious systems which deceived mankind.
Someone might immediately object that it makes no sense to cast 'systems' into a lake of fire. How would one do that anyway? This ignores two basic facts: 1)The language is obviously symbolic. It is only those who need to take it literally in order to hang onto a much cherished belief who seem to not be able to see this, and 2) Revelation 20:14 states that 'death and hell' are also cast into the lake of fire. Therefore the question is unavoidable no matter what conclusions you draw concerning the Beast and False Prophet. How do you cast something abstract like death into a literal lake of fire? The answer lies in the obviously symbolic nature of the passage. Please see below and the next section for more detail.
We are left only with the Devil of whom it is said along with the Beast and False prophet: 'shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever'. It matters little what conclusions we reach on the meaning of this phrase, because as the next two verses indicate there is nothing said of mankind being tormented forever and ever. This is clearly a designation which is applied only to the Devil, The Beast, and The False Prophet.
It does not follow, as some suggest, that this verse 'proves' that whatever is cast into the lake of fire is thus tormented forever and ever. How would you or could you torment death? How could you torment the grave (Hades, see section IV)? In addition, we find elsewhere the following in clear and non-symbolic language:
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14
Clearly the Devil is to be destroyed. So, if the Devil is to be destroyed, and the Beast and False Prophet, death, and hades are systems or abstract concepts, then how can they be 'tormented day and night forever and ever'? We have to look for what this might mean within the symbolical language in which it is written.
Revelation 20:13-15, Revelation 21:8
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. |
We cannot say of the human race what the Bible says concerning the Devil ,the beast, and the false prophet: and shall be tormented day and night for ever and eve., We should be careful to not apply this language where the Bible is silent.
To the contrary, inserted within the immediate context of this lake of fire in relation to mankind is: This is the second death. The meaning should be obvious to those who have not already made up their minds that the 'lake of fire' must be taken literally at all costs. The 'lake of fire' is an obvious symbol who's relation to mankind God has taken extra care to explain. For mankind, this lake of fire means a second death. If we were meant to take the lake of fire as literal then why insert this phrase which would serve only to confuse its meaning? The fact remains that these are the only two passages which speak of humans being cast into the 'lake of fire'. Neither one speaks and both call this condition 'the second death'. That 'second death' itself must be taken symbolically in order to avoid doing violence to the text is explained in the next section. |
